Edit Group?

[GatoRojo]

Hi.

I need to move a sequence of 10 pictures to a pre defined position i a display.What is the easiest way to do this?
I want to put them into a group, and them move the whole group. Or do i have to move them one by one?
Is it possible, at all, to edit a groups position, scale and so on? Even if I do group a set of pictures, the edit mode
only edits singe pictures, not the whole group.

Do I have to place them into a field (don't want to, in this case)? If I do have to put them into a field,
can I key frame the position of the field to different positions over time.

I find the help document and manual pretty weak. This forum seems to be the best source of information.

Regards
John

[ThomasLeong]

I need to move a sequence of 10 pictures to a pre defined position i a display.What is the easiest way to do this?
I want to put them into a group, and them move the whole group. Or do i have to move them one by one?

Yes you can group them and move them as a group. First, highlight one of objects by clicking on the lowest portion of it in the timeline (This turns that portion yellowish). Then Ctrl-click the other objects to add them to the group. Finally, right-click > Grouping > to Create a New Group or Assign one. Thereafter, anytime you click on any one of the object in the Group, the rest will be highlighted along with it to indicate they have been selected as well.
Move with your mouse cursor. Alternatively, right-click to select CUT, move cursor to Track(s) where you want to PASTE, right-click and paste.

Is it possible, at all, to edit a groups position, scale and so on? Even if I do group a set of pictures, the edit mode
only edits singe pictures, not the whole group.

Do I have to place them into a field (don't want to, in this case)? If I do have to put them into a field,
can I key frame the position of the field to different positions over time.

AFAIK, you have to use Fields to do this to a group. However, all the objects in the Group must be on Tracks assigned to the same FIELD for this to happen.
FIELDS is a preset position, size, rotation, etc in the SCREEN. When you first create your project, a STANDARD FIELD is automatically created anyway with properties such as the full SCREEN size and positioned over ALL the Displays of a multi-display project. And when you key-frame changes to the object, you are in reality key-framing the FIELD, not the object (usually the STANDARD FIELD, unless you also have individual DISPLAY FIELDS in a multi-display project. So yes, you can "key frame the position of the field to different positions over time".

Thomas Leong

[GatoRojo]

Thanks Thomas.

I understand I was a bit unclear in my first question. I don't want to move 10 pictures (a group) on the time line. I want to move them on screen to a fixed position.

And the general question is if i can change the position of a group of ten pics by in screen (not time line) clicking and dragging.
At the moment, when I do this, the in screen marked pic (not the whole group) is moved to the new position.

As I said, I'm a beginner, but comparing with, for example, Adobe After Effects or Premiere, WP has a much more complex (and unnecessary) way of handling editing. Maybe I'm just unused to the interface.

From your answer I understand that it not possible to, in screen, move whole groups of pictures. It is only possible to move fields.

Right?

John

[ThomasLeong]

Yes, it is not possible to move in-screen a group of pictures.

The only shortcut way I can think of is to create a FIELD in a particular position and size, then assign the Track where the pictures are to this new field (from their respective Track heads), and they will assume the new position and size. This will affect other pictures on the same Track though.

If you are new to WP, you can create a new FIELD in the Media Pool area (after project creation via the Wizard). It is Screens > Screen 1 > then in the right panel, click on an empty space or hover the mouse over a 'Display' in the panel and right-click to create a new Field in that Display. You can further edit the properties (XY position and size) in the columns shown.

[GatoRojo]

Ok.

I hope you won't get tired of my questions...I have many...

Ok, so I cannot move multiple pics at the same time, unless they are placed in a field.
But from the data sheet of WP3 (http://catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCat/im ... 0Sheet.pdf) it says that:
"Of course it is possible to change the location of screen fields at any time via keyframe animation."

But how? As you said, changes to a field's properties x,y,z will affect other pictures on the same Track though. I just want to change x,y,z for a portion of the field. And then place the field in a different position 5 minutes later.
Or do I have to create one field for every set up of pictures? In that case I need 200 fields.
I want to be able to position a field x,y,z-> Show pictures-> Turn the field "off" and then replace it to another position to show a different set of pictures, at a new position? No?

It would be no problem if I had one background and two static picture-in-pictures. But I'm gonna show 1000 pictures in different sizes and in different positions.

And the problem I referred to earlier was caused by a time laps group of pictures, taken by free hand, that first must be stabilized (individual pos, zoom, and rotation) to be able to fit as a smooth sequence.
This means that when the pictures are synkronized togeather to a "time-laps-movie", I must treat them as a group concerning scale and pos, otherwise the synk (individual pos, scale and rot) will be lost.
I can put these into a field, and then place the field where I want. But then I have to create 200 more fields to cover the rest of the pictures and sequences in the show, since the field is assigned to it's fixed position.

So. The easy question is...how do I change pos and scale of a field, without changing it's position throughout the whole timeline. I.e, how do I handle field keyframes. The data sheet says that I can...

Mabye it's much easier than I think! Maby the whole system is easier than I think. But at this time I haven't gotten into the WP set of thinking. I'm still thinking "Adobe After Effects", therefore I feel a bit lost in space...

Again, thanks Thomas (or anyone else that can help).
John

[ThomasLeong]

Sorry if I misled you earlier.
When a Field is created and assigned to a Track, and an (picture) object is put/dragged into that Track, the object auto acquires 2 key frames (Start and End) which has the properties of the Field - size and position, etc. Thereafter, you can change these 2 keyframes OR add in between them different properties (re-size, position, etc).

However, if I read you correctly, you have a sequence of pictures shot hand-held and need to be -
1. stabilized in Wings?
2. then shown as a sequence in a particular position and size as a group?

If the above read is correct, then -
1. is not possible easily with Wings, and After Effects with its tracking feature of auto-creating key-frames would be an easier solution; and
2. is easily achievable with Wings.

[GatoRojo]

Haha...it feels like we are talking about the same thing but we are misinterpreting eachother.
As I said, maybe it is much easier than I think, and therefore I don't get it.

You are correct. I will motion-track the pictures in After Effects, as soon I have it installed.
And I can show a sequence in a field. (I would like to edit (x,y,z) the sequence as a group, instead of pic by pic, but it is not possible).

However, I will make an example:
Let's say I have five sequences of pictures. I wanna show these sequences one by one, at different positions and different time.

I assign a track to a field and then put the first sequence of pics into the track. OK.
The field is pos in the upper left corner (field parameter). When the sequence is over I have four seqs left to show.
Seq number 2 is to be shown in the opposite lower right corner. I put seq number 2 into the same track as number 1.
Instead of moving every pic in seq number 2 one by one, I want to move the whole field to the lower right corner. How?
If I do it in field parameter, it will effect the whole track, even the seq 1 position. I don't want that.
Do I have to create a new field and pos it in the lower right corner?

I.e, do I need to create a field for every new position of sequence, or can I move the field pos from the upper left corner to the lower right? If so, how?
To create 5 new fields and tracks is ok, if I only have 5 sequences of pictures to show. But if I want to create a 10 minutes show, with 20 sequences and 500 single pics at many different pos and sizes, as a collage, it is impossible to create a field for every new position. I must be able to use and reposition the same track and field over time. No? Otherwise I must create 100 tracks and fields, and that is not effective, since I'm only using 4 or 5 at the same time.

I am sorry, Thomas, that I make a simple problem hard. Am I just stupid or why don't I understand :-)

/John

[ThomasLeong]

However, I will make an example:
Let's say I have five sequences of pictures. I wanna show these sequences one by one, at different positions and different time.

Not a problem with Wings

I assign a track to a field and then put the first sequence of pics into the track. OK.
The field is pos in the upper left corner (field parameter). When the sequence is over I have four seqs left to show.
Seq number 2 is to be shown in the opposite lower right corner. I put seq number 2 into the same track as number 1.
Instead of moving every pic in seq number 2 one by one, I want to move the whole field to the lower right corner. How?
If I do it in field parameter, it will effect the whole track, even the seq 1 position. I don't want that.
Do I have to create a new field and pos it in the lower right corner?

Creating a new field and pos it in the lower corner will be the easiest and fastest method.
Put seq 2 pictures into a new track, and assign this new field to that track. On the timeline, you can position, time-wise, the seq of pictures to occur after seq 1.

I.e, do I need to create a field for every new position of sequence, or can I move the field pos from the upper left corner to the lower right? If so, how?

You can do either, but each can have a different visual effect depending on opacity of picture object during the change in field position.

Creating a field for every new pos of sequence is like a jump cut from previous position to new position (or fade in/out if you use the ramp band). Best to use 2 tracks for this. One track assigned to a field pos for seq 1, and a 2nd track assigned to a field pos for seq 2.
An advantage to creating a field for every position is that it allows you to re-use the field for other sequences.

Moving the field pos from upper left corner to lower right requires key-framing of the picture object/field. If the last pic from seq 1 is visible, you and audience will see the pic object move diagonally to its new position. If no object is visible (i.e. ramp band = 0), field pos will move, but audience will not see its movement.

To create 5 new fields and tracks is ok, if I only have 5 sequences of pictures to show. But if I want to create a 10 minutes show, with 20 sequences and 500 single pics at many different pos and sizes, as a collage, it is impossible to create a field for every new position. I must be able to use and reposition the same track and field over time. No? Otherwise I must create 100 tracks and fields, and that is not effective, since I'm only using 4 or 5 at the same time.

From my knowledge of Wings, that is the easiest way.
If you use the in-screen editing and move the object-and-field, you would have to copy and paste the key-frames so created to another object for it to acquire the same properties of position and size.
On the other hand, creating multiple fields in Media Pool is relatively quick and allows you to re-use the field's properties anytime.
Procedure is Screens > Screen 1 > hover mouse over a Field you want to copy, right-click to Add a New Field and a new field is created with the same properties. If you right-click to add a new field on a blank part of the window, the new field takes on the Standard properties which is the full screen field.
In the Screen 1 Preview window, right-click to enable 'Display screen field frames' and you will be able to see the actual position of the field(s) in a yellow outline, unless they are hiding behind each other and are of the same size.
Edit the columns for Zoom, X and Y positions to preset their respective sizes and positions. Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V are your friends here. Rename each field for identification purposes.
Once your 100+ positions are created, insert 100+ tracks to your timeline with just a couple of mouse clicks (use "insert tracks..." and specify the number).
Then run through each track head's property and pre-assign a field to each track.
After this prep exercise, just drag and drop your picture objects into the track with the field you want. Thereafter, you can still key-frame changes or movements (animation) of field and object.