Hallo,
ich bin neu im Forum, obwohl ich es schon einige Zeit verfolge. Ich nutze die Pro-Lizenz und hadere mit folgendem Workflow:
Bislang habe ich meine AV-Shows in einer Timeline erstellt. Da die einzelnen Episoden jedoch nicht in der Reihenfolge entstehen, wie ich sie hinterher in der Show haben möchte, habe ich die Bilder der einzelnen Abschnitte über die unterschiedlichen Spuren hinweg mühsam gruppiert und am Ende durch Ausschneiden, wildes Hin- und Herschieben und Einfügen in die gewünschte Reihenfolge gebracht. Wenn es dann um die Vertonung ging, mussten ggf. noch einmal Teile angepasst und damit andere verschoben werden (jedesmal alle Gruppen markieren, etc.).
Ich habe daher diesmal die Episoden in unterschiedlichen Timelines erstellt und nun diese in die gewünschte Reihenfolge gebracht. Ich springe dann mit Triggern von einer Timeline zur nächsten; funktioniert gut, aber: Nun habe ich bei der Vertonung das Problem, dass eine fortlaufende Musik oder ein Loop nicht über den Timeline-Sprung hinweg funktioniert. Also nach dem Sortieren nun doch wieder alles in eine Timeline kopieren und dann vertonen, wie bei der alten Arbeitsweise?
Sicherlich gibt es hier einen deutlich effizienteren Workflow…
In diesem Zusammenhang stellen sich für mich außerdem ein paar Fragen zu Begriffen, die für mich ähnlich klingen, die ich aber nicht sicher auseinander halten kann (was wofür):
1. Wann macht denn das Arbeiten mit mehreren Timelines überhaupt Sinn?
2. Was bringen Gruppenspuren in diesem Zusammenhang (Episoden in Gruppenspuren zusammenfassen)?
3. Was sind Mix-Gruppen?
Vielen Dank für Eure Tipps im Voraus.
Workflow, mehrere Timelines
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ThomasLeong
- Pro User
- Beiträge: 110
- Registriert: 14. Jan 2008, 15:36
Hello Andreas,
Your project is complicated by the fact that you want to loop audio and at the same time call up different timelines. This is not possible with Wing 4, unless you use an external audio player (SC Master, pc or other media player - controlled from Wings or manually).
I do have a solution using only one Wings PC but the workflow is complicated. It involves initial editing with multiple Timelines so that changes can be made easily, and Grouping all objects in each Timeline for easier select, copy and paste to a Master Timeline after the editing is approved. This Master Timeline will have the audio file set to Asynchronous and Loop.
After all editing is done in separate Timelines, you copy and paste all objects from each Timeline to the Master Timeline. For each Track of Objects from each Timeline, you assign a Mix Group (i.e. one Mix Group for each Show you have). Because Mix Groups work on Tracks not individual objects, do not put objects from, Say, Show 1 in the same Tracks as objects from Show 2, etc. This involves some planning in the separate Timelines BEFORE you copy and past over to the Master Timeline.
Best way I find is to 'reserve' Tracks under a Group Heading for easier management. For example, if Timeline 1 uses Video Tracks 1, 2, 3, & 4 and Picture Tracks 1 & 2, then in Timeline 2, I would create empty Tracks of the same number, group them all under one Heading, and close the group of Tracks so that I do not put objects in those same Tracks in Timeline 2. Same goes for all the other Timelines. This way, when I copy and paste over to the Master Timeline, objects from Timeline 2 will not be put into tracks occupied by objects from Timeline 1.
Also, for the last object in a Mix Group/Show, you set it to Asynchronous and Loop, and add a Pause Marker just before this last object ends. Adjust and/or add Pause Markers for each Show end and start of next Show depending on whether you want a fade off or a cut between Shows.
Next create 2 Triggers for each Mix Group/Show, one trigger to fade out the Mix Group/Show, and a second Trigger to fade In. Experiment with the Trigger options depending on whether you start each Show in Pause mode, Fade mode, etc. Or use Space Bar to Play Timeline, and simultaneously Trigger to Fade In each Mix Group/Show.
This way, your Asynchronous Audio will loop even when the Master Timeline is in Pause mode, and the last Object of each Show/Mix Group will continue to play in Timeline Pause mode UNTIL you Spacebar it to fade out to black and Pause for the next Show. If no Pause, then you can fade to the next Show/Mix Group as the previous Mix Group/Show is fading out - this uses Capital Letters to fade in and lowercase letters to fade out in the Mix Group Properties settings, eg. aB means Mix Group A will fade out and Mix Group B will fade in to view.
Note that the Audio track is not assigned a Mix Group so it is not affected by your Mix Group Triggers.
Experiment with a some simple Timelines and objects to get the feel of it.
Hope that makes sense!
Thomas Leong
Your project is complicated by the fact that you want to loop audio and at the same time call up different timelines. This is not possible with Wing 4, unless you use an external audio player (SC Master, pc or other media player - controlled from Wings or manually).
I do have a solution using only one Wings PC but the workflow is complicated. It involves initial editing with multiple Timelines so that changes can be made easily, and Grouping all objects in each Timeline for easier select, copy and paste to a Master Timeline after the editing is approved. This Master Timeline will have the audio file set to Asynchronous and Loop.
After all editing is done in separate Timelines, you copy and paste all objects from each Timeline to the Master Timeline. For each Track of Objects from each Timeline, you assign a Mix Group (i.e. one Mix Group for each Show you have). Because Mix Groups work on Tracks not individual objects, do not put objects from, Say, Show 1 in the same Tracks as objects from Show 2, etc. This involves some planning in the separate Timelines BEFORE you copy and past over to the Master Timeline.
Best way I find is to 'reserve' Tracks under a Group Heading for easier management. For example, if Timeline 1 uses Video Tracks 1, 2, 3, & 4 and Picture Tracks 1 & 2, then in Timeline 2, I would create empty Tracks of the same number, group them all under one Heading, and close the group of Tracks so that I do not put objects in those same Tracks in Timeline 2. Same goes for all the other Timelines. This way, when I copy and paste over to the Master Timeline, objects from Timeline 2 will not be put into tracks occupied by objects from Timeline 1.
Also, for the last object in a Mix Group/Show, you set it to Asynchronous and Loop, and add a Pause Marker just before this last object ends. Adjust and/or add Pause Markers for each Show end and start of next Show depending on whether you want a fade off or a cut between Shows.
Next create 2 Triggers for each Mix Group/Show, one trigger to fade out the Mix Group/Show, and a second Trigger to fade In. Experiment with the Trigger options depending on whether you start each Show in Pause mode, Fade mode, etc. Or use Space Bar to Play Timeline, and simultaneously Trigger to Fade In each Mix Group/Show.
This way, your Asynchronous Audio will loop even when the Master Timeline is in Pause mode, and the last Object of each Show/Mix Group will continue to play in Timeline Pause mode UNTIL you Spacebar it to fade out to black and Pause for the next Show. If no Pause, then you can fade to the next Show/Mix Group as the previous Mix Group/Show is fading out - this uses Capital Letters to fade in and lowercase letters to fade out in the Mix Group Properties settings, eg. aB means Mix Group A will fade out and Mix Group B will fade in to view.
Note that the Audio track is not assigned a Mix Group so it is not affected by your Mix Group Triggers.
Experiment with a some simple Timelines and objects to get the feel of it.
Hope that makes sense!
Thomas Leong
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AndreasKUBH
- Beiträge: 9
- Registriert: 1. Feb 2013, 10:56
Hallo Thomas,
thank you very much for your interesting answer. I'm not quite sure whether I have understood your idea completely because I haven't worked with mix groups yet. I will test it in the next days and give a feedback.
Thank you very much again. Kind regards,
Andreas
thank you very much for your interesting answer. I'm not quite sure whether I have understood your idea completely because I haven't worked with mix groups yet. I will test it in the next days and give a feedback.
Thank you very much again. Kind regards,
Andreas
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ThomasLeong
- Pro User
- Beiträge: 110
- Registriert: 14. Jan 2008, 15:36
Hello Andreas,
On second thoughts, you do not need to use Mix Groups if your segment Shows end with black, and the next Show starts from black. Just try the editing workflow suggested - group them in each Timeline for easy selection, then copy and paste to the Master Timeline so that you can have your audio loop without interruption between Shows. Or forget all that, and use another device to play the audio loop, and use triggers for each Timeline.
Mix Groups feature is useful if you need to fade from one Mix Group to another. Bear in mind that the Mix Group that is in an off state should run parallel with the Mix Group that is on. The trigger will then fade one out and the other in.
In live theatre where the performance timing varies from one night to another, I have used Mix Groups to fade from one video to another. Rehearsals indicated how long to overlap the two Mix Groups so that I would not run out of video footage!! The slow motion helped in this respect. And luckily, the Director wanted the footage slowed down to give it a ghostly appearance. I have also used it for sound effects that overlapped but waiting for a cue from the actors. For video, it also depends on the video content. Best for generic non-descript content that has no definite beginning and ending such as traffic, crowds, clouds, etc.
Thomas
On second thoughts, you do not need to use Mix Groups if your segment Shows end with black, and the next Show starts from black. Just try the editing workflow suggested - group them in each Timeline for easy selection, then copy and paste to the Master Timeline so that you can have your audio loop without interruption between Shows. Or forget all that, and use another device to play the audio loop, and use triggers for each Timeline.
Mix Groups feature is useful if you need to fade from one Mix Group to another. Bear in mind that the Mix Group that is in an off state should run parallel with the Mix Group that is on. The trigger will then fade one out and the other in.
In live theatre where the performance timing varies from one night to another, I have used Mix Groups to fade from one video to another. Rehearsals indicated how long to overlap the two Mix Groups so that I would not run out of video footage!! The slow motion helped in this respect. And luckily, the Director wanted the footage slowed down to give it a ghostly appearance. I have also used it for sound effects that overlapped but waiting for a cue from the actors. For video, it also depends on the video content. Best for generic non-descript content that has no definite beginning and ending such as traffic, crowds, clouds, etc.
Thomas
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ThomasLeong
- Pro User
- Beiträge: 110
- Registriert: 14. Jan 2008, 15:36
Andreas,
BTW, if you want, I can create a simple project with Mix Groups in it, and send it to you. You then replace the footage with your own, or we can use still pix that are packaged with Windows 7. This might help quicken your learning process. I'll have to use Pro demo though as I have Wings MD version but that should be ok once you plug in your Pro dongle.
email me if you want that.
Thomas
thomas.leong1@gmail.com
BTW, if you want, I can create a simple project with Mix Groups in it, and send it to you. You then replace the footage with your own, or we can use still pix that are packaged with Windows 7. This might help quicken your learning process. I'll have to use Pro demo though as I have Wings MD version but that should be ok once you plug in your Pro dongle.
email me if you want that.
Thomas
thomas.leong1@gmail.com